Scale with something that is a bit offscreen

[OldNick]

I have a single object on scene. I set an X Translate that is static, such that the object just appears on screne to the left. My idea (and it may be familiar to some:) ) is to have it move slowly across the scene over the duration of the piece of music. In this case from just appearing at the left, then moving to just appear to the right. I have done this by creating a wav that is simply a single note, with a gradually increasing volume from -infinity to something approaching 0dB. I use this to gradually overcome the static offset and drag the object to the right.

If I keep the object entirely on the scene, this works. But then if I increase the static offset enough to make the object disappear offscreen at all, even by a small amount, it will be dragged to the right, but so is the LHS of the scene itself. So I keep seeing the same amount of the object, moving right as required, but never appearing entirely on scene, because the scene LHS follows it across to the right.

Help? Very puzzled. Thought I had this sussed.

EDIT: I will add that if I lower the static offset even while the piece is playing, it stops the behaviour. If I alter the static setting during play to increase it while the piece is playing, then the problem reappears. It does not matter how much of the object is off scene statically.

AND ANOTHER THING (He muttered) This ONLY applies to the slow transition using the selling note. If I take that out of the series, then the object jumps back and forth to music, because I have another Translate that respond to audio volume. That behaves OK.

Goodness! If I disable all modules BUT the slow left to right movement and the initial static offset, the problem goes away.

Thanks

Nick

[OldNick]

here are the files showing what happens. Sorry bout the raw Magic and the mucus is a WIP

Nick

[artnik]

I'll say it again, doing this would be trivial by using an Increase Modifier, with a small value. Combined with an Offset modifier for the initial translation.

[OldNick]

I am sorry that you have to repeat yourself (not sure where) , if you have. If I can't use an obvious process that works one way one where then another way, then it's broken. So is the system.

[OldNick]

There should be no situation where the result is WRONG. Simplez

[artnik]

In your "Time-based Activity" thread you wanted to solve a similar problem, and I advised you that MODIFIERS, or an external MIDI timeline program was what you were looking for. (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1178)

The solution to this problem is the same, being that a simple Modifier setup will produce the action, and remain editable within Magic without any external applications needed.

It's not a question of "is the solution right or wrong," it's whether it gets you the result you want, with the simplest setup, that has options for easily tweaking it.

The solution of using an increasing tone to move an object across the screen is one possible solution, but it may not be the most robust. It seems overly complicated.

I wouldn't say that MMV is broken, but it is a very complicated piece of software. When you start adding together a number of, what seem like, simple translations and transforms, the additive result can often seem very counter-intuitive or broken. But whenever I have experienced this, I've found that debugging my wiring, or trying a different approach resolves it.

If you just want to create a base movement of an object across the screen this is honestly the easiest way:

Screen Shot 2017-02-18 at 11.59.30 AM.png (52.06 KiB) Viewed 18109 times

If you are looking to then have that movement speed up/slow down in response to audio input, you can do it one of two ways. Either change the "NO SOURCE" dropdown to your audio source, or use a second TRANSLATE module that uses an audio source, with an INCREASE Modifier set to 0.0. This second module will then only react to the sound.

If I'm not understanding what you are trying to achieve, then help by rendering a video of your output, and put it up so we can see the current result, and/or upload your .MAGIC file and audio file so people who are interested in helping can easily download it and try to debug what's going on. With a static screenshot, it's hard to see what the problem is, given there's no reference for the audio.

Cheers.

[Magic]

OldNick, looking quickly at your screenshot I can see that you have a Translate module after a Trails module. You would almost never want to do this. Try placing the last Translate module *before* the Trails.

I believe your problem exists because the Trails module creates an intermediate snapshot of your entire scene, and you are translating that snapshot, rather than just the original Waveform source.

I do agree with artnik that there is a simpler way to achieve the specific kind of left-to-right movement you are looking for. But, for more complex movement, your method does have its advantages.

[OldNick]

Thanks for the replies.

OK. I thought I _had_ posted up a video.

Anyway, this morning I recreated the situation (I am still using the trial) and I cannot get the problem again at all.

I certainly do want to do more than an Increase can do AFAICS. Making a sound envelope that suits my needs takes seconds in SONAR. That envelope can be complex and is time-based, but infinitely variable as regards where you are in the musical piece and what it does to any object.

Nick

[OldNick]

HAH! I did not give it enough time. Instead of dragging the scene from the left, my object traveled across the scene ....then dragged the scene back from the right. It did that while I was posting.

But yeah putting the Trails module last seems to have stopped it.

Nick

[OldNick]

OK. Can I ask about this? No promises but I am trying to get this.

Why is using a slowly changing audio not robust? The entire programme is around music controlling motion.

Apart from that what is more intuitive than creating an envelope that fits the song and the timing, in my song creation software and then using it to control stuff?

I can see the elegance of controlling a light show from a MIDI programme, but .....

I just tried to work out how to use the plugins that allow tunneling of MIDI and audio from one app to another. AFAICS I would need to feed both MIDI and Audio from my music app to Magic. I have managed to use a MIDI pipe, but VB-Audio, recommended by this site, is not seen by either SONAR or Magic, and AFAICS I need to have both feeds going to get MIDI to control anything.

It starts to look very complex.

[Sadler]

Hello OldNick - I find audio support in Magic to be very robust, though I am not using Sonar. I use an audio player while creating and testing and a line from the DJ when performing. Here's the setup I use from MediaMonkey to Magic. MediaMonkey send its audio to the input of VB-Audio which is forwarded to the output of VB-Audio and read as an input in MMV. You can choose to listen (I do) or not from the recording properties for the VB-Audio output. I would imagine this would be similar for most audio players/producers on Windows.

VB_Cable_Setup.png (48.3 KiB) Viewed 17989 times

[OldNick]

Thanks for that. I am off to a bad start though . I have installed Ethernet MIDI. SONAR sees it as an output, but MMV does not see it as an input. I have also installed VB Audio and while Windows sees it as a sound device and MMV sees it as a device..._SONAR_ does not.

Nick

[OldNick]

I have a reason, I think, to use internal audio of any sort to control visuals: what if I want to create a movie?

Maybe I am wrong, but when I tried to export a movie where external input was involved, as distinct from files etc, the movie was black

[Magic]

You can't export a movie with external input . Exporting is a non-real-time process, so it only works with files. https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads ... tingMovies

Some people have had success with real-time video capture of the Magic window, but you need to use an external utility, such as NVidia Shadowplay: http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides ... -now-share

I don't recommend real-time capture for production work though, because even the best systems can drop frames. When you use the Export Movie feature in Magic, you are 100% guaranteed not to drop frames.