Previous topicNext topic

stylus/tablet input

Suggestions for new features for Magic.
Post Reply
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

would it be possible to utilize a drawing tablet in future magic updates? it could ad a lot of versatility to live performances, rather than make an entity move around using sliders/knobs designated to X and Y axis you could just move it around using the tablet, it would be so much more fluid. It'd also be nice if you could save specific paths drawn using the the tablet and then have them control models and images when they are activated. Thanks!
Sadler
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Sadler »

For stylus digitisers maybe try something like this?

http://www.livelab.dk/tablet2midi.php

You have to use the pen though, for absolute positioning.

And for tablets try TouchOSC or Lemur (which do midi and OSC),
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

Yeah Sadler is right, the best way to use any kind of controller input is to pair it with a MIDI conversion utility (if it isn't MIDI already).

Usually it's pretty simple and easy to set up.
And for tablets try TouchOSC
I can verify that TouchOSC works perfectly with Magic, and is an excellent way to use your tablet/smartphone as a touch controller.
It'd also be nice if you could save specific paths drawn using the the tablet and then have them control models and images when they are activated.
I'm hoping that Magic 2.0 (due out later this year) will allow you to record and play back MIDI input.
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

sadly I can't use that livelab application because I'm using OS X and it's not supported. I am currently trying to use the program Mu MIDI Controller from musicunfolding.com but can't seem to get it to work with my wacom tablet.
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

after a long time of fiddling with various other programs it has become clear that my tablet is not compatible to pretty much every program that does this. they all pick up weather or not the pen is on the pad but can't keep track of movement along and x and y axis.
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Eric wrote: I can verify that TouchOSC works perfectly with Magic, and is an excellent way to use your tablet/smartphone as a touch controller.
I've downloaded TouchOSC and am now using OSCulator in order to map and translate it to MIDI data, however it doesn't work as perfectly as I thought, especially when it comes to the reason I bought it. I wanted to have full control of an objects x and y axis on one singular grid, which TouchOSC has, but it does not allow me to actually map the MIDI input to control both X and Y with one grid in Magic. So I'm basically still using two sliders just as I would be on my MIDI board except now its on my iPad. Am I doing something wrong? or is this just not a possibility when it comes to using Magic? If I invested in a new drawing tablet would I encounter the same exact issues?

Thank you for helping Eric, anything is appreciated!
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

I've downloaded TouchOSC and am now using OSCulator in order to map and translate it to MIDI data
You don't need OSCulator. Just use the free TouchOSC MIDI Bridge: http://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-configu ... ons-bridge
I wanted to have full control of an objects x and y axis on one singular grid, which TouchOSC has, but it does not allow me to actually map the MIDI input to control both X and Y with one grid in Magic.
For things like that, it's a little bit more complicated, because Magic can't automatically distinguish between all the different messages that TouchOSC sends. But you can still do it -- all you have to do is get the free TouchOSC editor (http://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-editor) and you can inspect/customize the MIDI messages directly. And if necessary, you can enter them into Magic manually (i.e., *not* using the MIDI Learn feature).

Once you get the hang of TouchOSC, you'll realize how good it is, especially with an iPad :). Lots of people use it with Magic for exactly the purpose you're describing.
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Eric wrote: For things like that, it's a little bit more complicated, because Magic can't automatically distinguish between all the different messages that TouchOSC sends. But you can still do it -- all you have to do is get the free TouchOSC editor (http://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-editor) and you can inspect/customize the MIDI messages directly. And if necessary, you can enter them into Magic manually (i.e., *not* using the MIDI Learn feature).

Once you get the hang of TouchOSC, you'll realize how good it is, especially with an iPad :). Lots of people use it with Magic for exactly the purpose you're describing.
Ok thanks for the help Eric, I'm going to do my best to figure this out :) :? ...I'll try to post a tutorial if I do since I can't seem to find any specifically for magic, and I'm sure others would love to know.
dj0le
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:46 am
Location: Tuzla, Bosnia & Herzegovina

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by dj0le »

I use TouchOSC in Arena, but I haven't used it in Magic. If anyone has a nice setup already, maybe they could share it? :)
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Ok. I got everything working. When I move my finger along the x-axis of my iPad in TouchOSC the polygon it is mapped to moves along its x-axis, when I move my finger along the y-axis of my iPad the polygon also moves along its y-axis. However...the movements are very laggy and clunky, especially when utilizing both axis at the same time (circle motions/ diagonals). Drawing with the knobs on my MIDI board actually comes out way cleaner/smoother but using the XYgrid in TouchOSC gives me much more fluid control and makes it easier to use one hand for drawing while the other is controlling slider and knob effects. Is there anything I can do to improve this? I'm assuming that if there is it would be within Magic itself.

Thank you for all the help that got me to this point and will get me further!! :D
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

dj0le wrote:I use TouchOSC in Arena, but I haven't used it in Magic. If anyone has a nice setup already, maybe they could share it? :)
I literally figured it out moments ago but would be more than happy to attempt to help you. And like I said its very laggy/clunky for me so it won't be perfect.
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

However...the movements are very laggy and clunky, especially when utilizing both axis at the same time (circle motions/ diagonals).
To me that sounds like a network/wifi issue. It should be perfectly smooth. Have you checked to make sure your network is set up correctly and is operating at the proper speed?
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Eric wrote:
However...the movements are very laggy and clunky, especially when utilizing both axis at the same time (circle motions/ diagonals).
To me that sounds like a network/wifi issue. It should be perfectly smooth. Have you checked to make sure your network is set up correctly and is operating at the proper speed?
That could be it, I have a slow internet connection. The object/polygon responds well (no lag) whenever i tap anywhere on the screen to move it/ cause it to jump. But when I slide my finger it looks like it is moving cm by cm and not pixel by pixel, if that makes sense. Would plugging it into my computer help? pretty sure the data would still be sent via wireless since it's only an iPad app.
Sadler
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Sadler »

If it's a network issue then a slow internet connection isn't the problem - TouchOSC doesn't need an internet connection. If you create an ad hoc network from your PC and connect your iPad to that there won't be any interference from internet traffic unless your network is overloaded.

The chunkiness of interaction could also be because the limits of the interaction aren't setup to be -1 to 1. If, for instance, it was set up to be from 0 to 127, even tiny interactions would cause big leaps.
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Sadler wrote: The chunkiness of interaction could also be because the limits of the interaction aren't setup to be -1 to 1. If, for instance, it was set up to be from 0 to 127, even tiny interactions would cause big leaps.
I tried that but I can't make it lower than zero in TouchOSC Editor. I tried lowering and raising but it only seems to make it worse either way.
Sadler
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Sadler »

Manipulate the value inside MV then. e.g. (value/127) - 1
cosmicinsight
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:53 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by cosmicinsight »

Sadler wrote:Manipulate the value inside MV then. e.g. (value/127) - 1
I am not quite sure how to do that. When I make the value smaller than 127 (in TouchOSC Editor) it constricts the object to a much smaller space to move within, and is still as clunky. It's probably my wireless network but nothing seems to be out of order when I check it. Is there a way I can connect my iPad to my laptop and receive OSC/MIDI data that way?
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

When I make the value smaller than 127 (in TouchOSC Editor) it constricts the object to a much smaller space to move within
I don't think you want to manipulate any values in the TouchOSC Editor. Just leave things as the default (0-127) so that you get the full range of motion. If you need to do any scaling, do so in Magic.
Is there a way I can connect my iPad to my laptop and receive OSC/MIDI data that way?
I'm not aware of anything like that. Unfortunately, Apple strictly controls how the iPad can be connected.
It's probably my wireless network but nothing seems to be out of order when I check it
For testing, I suggest you do the following:
1) Disconnect your router from the internet, if possible. (TouchOSC and Magic don't need the internet.) Also disconnect any other devices on your network. Overall you want to prevent any extra traffic from causing congestion.
2) Directly connect your computer to the router with an Ethernet cable.
3) Test your iPad in the same room as the router to avoid low signal strength.
Sadler
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:10 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Sadler »

I was testing TouchOSC using an XY Pad to send midi to MMV to scale a polygon. My testing showed that MMV receives 100/cc_value in the Scale module. If the midi range is 0-127 then the maximum scale value is 100/127 (0.7874) and if the midi range is set to 0-50, MMV receives 0-2.0.

Is this conversion something in TouchOSC, Bridge or MMV? The resolution of the values didn't seem to be otherwise affected except for the range of values.
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

For module parameters, Magic always scales MIDI input by 1/127. Thus, the default MIDI range of 0 to 127 becomes 0 to 1.

I wouldn't change the MIDI range in TouchOSC, because you might be limiting the granularity. Always do all your scaling in Magic.
Fractal Grinder
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Fractal Grinder »

I just started using TouchOSC again with Magic recently, most everything is working now, with the exception of X/Y pads, has anybody else had trouble with this or maybe found a solution?
Magic
Site Admin
Posts: 3440
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Magic »

Were you not able to get it to work with the steps described previously?
Reigel
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:56 am

Re: stylus/tablet input

Post by Reigel »

Did You think about a good old joystick? I must admit that I didn't use one for years and I do not know if they still are transmitting MIDI-Data. But I bet that there are some apps out there to translate these joystick output into whatever You need. And these do work fluently and without lags. Otherwise they would be smashed by gamers.

Give it try
Reinhard
Post Reply