Z/X Trails

[Fractal Grinder]

Hey I was wondering how possible it would be to add MIDI learn to this parameter?

Trails:

Z/X


Thanks

[Magic]

I can do that. Initially it didn't occur to me that someone would want to use it that way .

[Fractal Grinder]

Yeah I am getting some really cool results from expressively switching between the two.

Also just a small opinion that might not really matter, I feel like having to go to Edit>Remove for removing modifiers is a bit tedious I much prefer it being right there as you Right click.

Thanks for your time as always, Eric.

[Magic]

Also just a small opinion that might not really matter, I feel like having to go to Edit>Remove for removing modifiers is a bit tedious I much prefer it being right there as you Right click.

Yeah I know it's a bit tedious, but it makes more sense from a logical/intuitive standpoint to group all the Edit commands together. To make it more convenient, I will be adding some keyboard shortcuts in v1.64 .

[damstraversaz]

it could be very useful.

By the way , is it possible to have a Y trails? this could be a great feature, especially with all the pitch tracking note scenes. I'm using some rotation actually, but due to the output format , this is not perfect
here is a screenshot , I'm playing piano on stage, and it create a visual music score in real time, according to pitch of the notes ( low frequency on the left and high on the right, like a piano keyboard )

piano ostinato

ostinato.png (241.61 KiB) Viewed 16773 times

[Magic]

Sure, I can do that. I'll just add a combo box so you can choose X, Y, or Z.

EDIT: actually no, a combo box wouldn't be linkable. Let me think about this .

[damstraversaz]

great ! thanks a lot

[Fractal Grinder]

Actually got some new projects that this would look beautiful implemented in, soo just a small bump because it sounded like you thought it may be easy enough to throw in there for me

[Terry Payman]

I'm no mathematician so I find an empirical/aesthetic approach generally is far more productive when working with trails.

I find the Z/X terminology highly confusing, and wonder what is "Z/X-ness".

It apparently means "trail vertically too", and when I am designing scenes that's the way I think of and use it. If I only want horizontal trails I un-check it.

I too would find it useful to have an extra option for trails to be vertical only instead of horizontal only. Wouldn't something like "Swap" work as such a toggle?

Default off. If checked in the default mode of the module it would swap expansion for contraction, ie reverse sign of the Speed, otherwise it would swap horizontal trailing for vertical trailing.

[Terry Payman]

... and while you have the cover off the Trails module could we please have at least hue rotation and z-rotation too? Saturation would be a nice further addition.

There are many fundamental feedback effects that I can readily achieve with my analogue setup which are impossible with the present Trails module. I particularly miss the above.

[artnik]

Hey Terry,

Looks like someone's been making progress with a Trails Feedback ISF:

http://www.interactiveshaderformat.com/sketches/902

[Magic]

The Z/X parameter is useful only if the Speed parameter is non-zero (see https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads ... tml#Trails).
If Speed is positive, the trails will point out of the screen (Z axis) with Z/X on, and to the left (X axis) with Z/X off. If Speed is negative, the directions will be reversed along their axes.

I know Z/X is not the best name for a parameter, and I think I implemented it before I made drop-down boxes available (allowing for more than 2 options). Ultimately if I want to add a Y option I have to think about how to allow a drop-down box to be linkable, because I haven't tackled that yet. It should be easy, but unforeseen things can happen .

... and while you have the cover off the Trails module could we please have at least hue rotation and z-rotation too? Saturation would be a nice further addition.

The problem with adding the hue/saturation options now is that they would require using a shader, which means I'd have to add to the existing shader embedded in the Trails module. As you know, making a shader more complicated means it would slow things down even if the options aren't enabled, thus affecting everyone's projects. Hue/saturation computations are particularly expensive.

As a workaround, couldn't you use a HueSaturation module just before the Trails module? And if you wanted the original image on top, you could just hook it up separately (an additional time)?

The z-rotation might be possible without affecting anything, so I'll have a look.

As Artnik suggested, there might also be a better ISF Trails module out there somewhere.

[Terry Payman]

Hey Terry,
Looks like someone's been making progress with a Trails Feedback ISF:
http://www.interactiveshaderformat.com/sketches/902

Many thanks Nik - I hadn't seen this and it looks like a very promising start - I'm inspired to try getting my head round the GLSL language so I can adapt this or some other ISF module.

...If Speed is positive, the trails will point out of the screen (Z axis) with Z/X on, and to the left (X axis) with Z/X off. If Speed is negative, the directions will be reversed along their axes.

Thanks Eric. I had appreciated this behaviour, just didn't understand how the parameter name related to it.

...could we please have at least hue rotation and z-rotation too? Saturation would be a nice further addition.

...As a workaround, couldn't you use a HueSaturation module just before the Trails module?...

Thanks, but that gives a different effect, with all the trails having the same hue shift. What I would like is for each successive trail to be hue shifted from its predecessor, so the hue progressively changes. At the moment I can get a somewhat similar effect by passing the Trails output through the ISF Thermal Camera. Trail then changes colour as it fades out.

The z-rotation might be possible without affecting anything, so I'll have a look.

As Artnik suggested, there might also be a better ISF Trails module out there somewhere.

I'm beginning to see some lovely feedback effects on Shadertoy too - I'm hopeful I can learn enough GLSL to understand these examples so I can custom build the feedback effects I need - but I'm a slow learner.

[Magic]

What I would like is for each successive trail to be hue shifted from its predecessor, so the hue progressively changes.

Isn't that accomplished with the following (for example)?

Screen Shot 2016-02-15 at 10.33.35 PM.png (347.44 KiB) Viewed 16571 times

[Terry Payman]

Thanks Eric, but that gives quite a different effect to what I would like. I want the object and its trails to have a consistent appearance as they travel together. The hue needs to be a function of trail "age", not "time of birth".

Here's an example that starts with my desired effect. The appearance of the "meteors" remains constant as they travel, looking like red-hot fireballs leaving a trail that "cools" to blue behind them. This used your Trails module feeding the ISF Thermal Camera.

The illusion is far less effective using the configuration suggested, although attractive in a different way(second half of video).

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestion of using the HueSaturation module - it works very nicely on the output of the Thermal Camera module to give a variety of alternative colour schemes for my preferred method.

[Magic]

Aha, I see what you are saying now. Maybe I can look into doing a separate ISF shader with that kind of functionality.

[Terry Payman]

...Maybe I can look into doing a separate ISF shader with that kind of functionality.