simple midi video triggering issue

[rdorsche]

Hi there, New to Magic.
I've downloaded the demo two days ago and I'm still fooling around with it to see if it will fit my needs.
I'm only after triggered pre-prepared videos; not using any of the video effect modules at all.

I have a show in 2 months, and need a simple solution:
I press a Novation Launchpad (or similar, Akai mini APC), which sends out a MIDI note value.
I've figured out how to set up multiple Video Modules and assign various MIDI notes to trigger the videos.
I'm using the midi note value to trigger the "Goto Start" button per each module.
That part works just fine.

But here's the problem:
It seems Magic gives priority to the first-set-up Video Modules in the scene, meaning whatever I loaded first.

I want to be able to do two things:
1) always have one video playing as a "default" in the background. (be it black or some oddball artwork, it doesn't matter)
But more importantly
2) The main thing: play whatever video I just triggered. Right now. Display it, *right now*.
As it stands, Magic won't display what I trigger until the first one finishes playing; it does trigger the second video and picks up where you would be in that video, but not until the first one finishes playing.
I want the videos to play through to their end *unless* I trigger another video.

How come I'm not getting that result?
Is there a setting I'm missing?
Is the secret using "scenes" instead of multiple Video Modules in one scene?

What I'm trying to do is elementary but I'm not getting the desired results.
If I get the basic desired outcome here, the last question would be: is there a toggle feature for video module?
The toggle would be to cease playback once triggered, when set to play through to the end of the video?

I'm on a 2014 Macbook Pro OSX Yosemite; however for the show, the videos will most likely be triggered on a Win8 Laptop, remotely.

[Magic]

Good questions. I think there are a few concepts at issue so I'll do my best to explain them.

Here's a quick screenshot with a couple yellow arrows I painted:

2videos.jpg (29.81 KiB) Viewed 11996 times

1) always have one video playing as a "default" in the background. (be it black or some oddball artwork, it doesn't matter)

The yellow arrow on the right indicates the layer order. The top connector is the top layer, and so on. Thus, anything you want to be in the background should be the bottom connector. For more info, see this section of the User's Guide: https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads ... ingModules

is there a toggle feature for video module?
The toggle would be to cease playback once triggered, when set to play through to the end of the video?

That's what the Looping toggle does, as indicated by the yellow arrow on the left... or am I not understanding?

Is the secret using "scenes" instead of multiple Video Modules in one scene?

If all you want to do is trigger different videos and nothing else, then yes, I'd suggest you have only one Video module per scene. Then you can just use the Playlist to navigate between the scenes using your MIDI device: https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads ... .html#MIDI. That's by far the easiest way to start out with, but Magic is fairly versatile, so there are other ways to do it which will give you more control. Let me know if you can't get it to work the way you want and I'll explain further .

[rdorsche]

Hey, thanks for the answer!
I've been fooling around with Magic all day and an Akai Mini APC controller (very similar to a Novation Launchpad), and can't quite get what I want done.
I posed a question on Facebook too, I'll copy it here:
=====
Is there any way to trigger Scenes using a Launchpad or any other grid controller?
I've gotten it to work triggering Scenes using a slider CC command (totally not precise, I use use a 0-127 slider or knob to accurately select a Scene);
I'd rather press a button, or better yet a synthesizer key (note value on) and have that scene triggered, with last note priority.
Meaning, the most recent trigger is played, no matter what. It seems to work using Scenes combined with "Scene Start" checked.

However, Magic doesn't seem to want to accept assigning midi note values to Scenes for some reason; it only accepts MIDI CCs.
I tried assigning note value:on to "Goto Start" on a video module and it works, but whatever video is first in line in the Magic output module takes priority over all the rest, so in the end that option isn't a solution at all.

I'm trying to get around that priority using a grid midi controller (Launchpad) triggering Scenes somehow.
In other words, playing Magic like a MPC sampler, but for prepared video (I'm not using any effect modules yet).
Nearly every Ableton Live user would probably expect this behavior and pick up on this feature intuitively if it were incorporated.

Any ideas? Did I miss anything? Could this idea be implemented?

[rdorsche]

Oh, to answer the "Toggle" question:
Is it possible to Toggle the playback behavior:
In other words, press once to start playback; press again to stop playback.
It would be nice if you could stop the playback of a long video that's higher up in the playback priority.

That would also suggest other logic possibilities, like Gate, if/then, negate, and other logical choices for playback or triggers.

[Magic]

Magic doesn't seem to want to accept assigning midi note values to Scenes for some reason

Magic will let you use note numbers to control the playlist. Here is a post that describes what to do: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=279&start=10#p1240

Basically, you need to select the "Last Note" option in the MIDI config at the top of the Playlist window. Then you can trigger individual scenes based on note numbers, starting at 0.

I guess you can't customize the MIDI mapping on the Novation directly, but you could use something like this: http://www.midikatapult.com/Katapult/Home.html
Or this? http://us.novationmusic.com/software/automap. I don't have a Novation so I'm not sure.

It would be nice if you could stop the playback of a long video that's higher up in the playback priority.

To "stop" a video, what you actually want to do is turn the Video module off by using its Power parameter. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=356&p=1436#p1436. Using this strategy, you can have multiple Video modules in a scene and control which one is visible (via MIDI). This is how you can deal with the "first in line" issue you mentioned above.

For your specific case, you can use the same button on your Novation to control both Power and Goto Start. So when you toggle the button on, the video will appear and start playing, and when you toggle it off, the video will disappear.

GotoStart_and_Power.jpg (21.81 KiB) Viewed 11973 times

If you did this with several Video modules in the same scene, and a different Novation button for each module, your Novation would let you select which video is playing. I think this is what you are looking for?

[rdorsche]

Ahhhh! Much better.
Nearly there... but there's still a few quirks. I'll list them below.
I'm testing using an Akai APC Mini. Likes this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/APCmini

I also own a Novation Launchpad.
I can tell you that they both operate nearly identical in every way, regarding the buttons:
~ Both send on a fixed midi channel 1
~ Both use momentary values. If you hold a button down, is sends a note value, 127 velocity (as long as you hold it); when you release, it sends the same note value, velocity 0. If you just press and release, it sends an immediate duplex: note value+ velocity 127, then note value+velocity 0.

Here's the quirks vs. your advice:
~ For a true "toggle," note duplexing would need to have a setting in the Magic software. A setting that registers that duplex as a single press; and the next press logically negate the press. So as it is, using the Power button as a midi note value won't work unless I hold that button the entire time (but I see what you're doing there). Also -- powering off the video module does not stop the position of where playback was occurring in the video; it's still playing through, and you you power back on, it merely continues displaying where you are chronologically.

~ For some reason I cannot figure out, the midi note value 0 always triggers the last item in the playlist, but never Entry 0. Maybe that goes back to the duplex note value, that's my best guess. But all others work like a charm, so we're mostly there! Except...

~ You can't retrigger a scene in repetition (I'm talking about video module content here) unless you also add in Goto Start triggered by midi, using the same note value as the Playlist Item, then it works.

~ This is where be able to assign an actual user-assignable midi note value as a Playlist item trigger would be ideal. Notes on these devices start at note value 0, and go up +1 starting in the bottom left corner and progress to the right and then up a row, providing 64 notes. However, Ableton Live uses channels that acknowledge vertical columns on these controllers. In Live, they call those Clips. So most performers would be using a single controller to control both Ableton Live Clips AND Magic Playlist Items simultaneously. It would be smart to allow the Playlist items to be note-assignable by the user in this case, rather than the Last Note option.

I'll be buying Magic next paycheck. I think you're on the right track.

Like I mentioned at the top of the string, for right now I'm just looking for midi triggered playback of pre-prepared video clips.
Eventually I'll use the effects.

Pretty Pretty Pretty Pretty Please, develop it to where you can assign actual custom midi note values to the Playlist Items.

I'm part of a larger electronic music community (electro-music.com), and I think a lot of performers would really appreciate Magic since it has a relatively small CPU hit when triggering video clips from an SSD. It can be run at the same time as Ableton Live and various synth plugins!

[rdorsche]

BTW, I used this other software last year and hated it (AVMixer Lite).
I barely got it working. Here's an example of what I mean by simple midi triggering.
Using a Launchpad to trigger both audio samples in Abelton Live, and the same button press also triggers the corresponding video on another computer on the floor, over a USB midi cable, between two computers.
This is what I'm trying to do, except with software that more stable than AVMixer Lite!
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=59 ... =3&theater

[Magic]

For a true "toggle," note duplexing would need to have a setting in the Magic software.

Ok, I'll look into adding it. But according to this link (http://thedspproject.com/novation-launc ... ration-pt1) it says toggling is supported on the Launchpad. Am I reading it wrong?

powering off the video module does not stop the position of where playback was occurring in the video; it's still playing through, and you you power back on, it merely continues displaying where you are chronologically.

You're right, that's a bug actually . I'll fix it for the next release. You'll have the option to rewind or not rewind the video when the module powers back on.

For some reason I cannot figure out, the midi note value 0 always triggers the last item in the playlist, but never Entry 0. Maybe that goes back to the duplex note value, that's my best guess.

This happens when you have "Last Note" selected? It seems to work for me on all my MIDI devices, but I'll investigate further.

~ You can't retrigger a scene in repetition (I'm talking about video module content here) unless you also add in Goto Start triggered by midi, using the same note value as the Playlist Item, then it works.

True. I never thought of that and no one has ever asked for it before . Should be a simple tweak.

Pretty Pretty Pretty Pretty Please, develop it to where you can assign actual custom midi note values to the Playlist Items.

Ok, I think a few people have asked for that so I'll put it on my to-do list. But in the meantime, did you investigate the Automap and Katapult links I posted above? You should be able to re-map the MIDI layout to where the numbers are sequential all the way down. And you should be able to deal with the momentary vs. toggle issue also.

[rdorsche]

Replying to your questions:
~ I tried Automap and it made things rather unstable in my rig, and introduced a little bit of undesirable latency, so I rejected using it. But that was back in 2010.

~ I'm trying to find a solution that allows use of the Launchpad (or other momentary controller, like keys on a synth controller keyboard) out of the box, without a third-party midi data stream solution. Automap and VST plugin wrappers like those add one more layer of complication. Besides, that would mean changing any number of Live project files of mine drastically, so that's another reason why it's truly not an option. Where that "advanced" software use works for other people, it actually creates more problems in complex midi rigs like mine by interfering with the midi data stream.

~ Yes, it never plays Entry 0 using the APC Mini's bottom-left corner pad, which sends out midi note 0 (C-2). I'm actually testing the APC Mini on an iMac at work; I'll try it at home with both the Mini and the Launchpad on the MacBook Pro at home later, and report if I get the same or different results.

~ Using a single grid controller for these audio & video triggers: I can try to convert midi note values within Live instead and then send out those out over an IAC bus to Magic. That's a workaround I can do almost immediately, and still satisfy my guideline of one controller for both apps in a live performance, all without an additional third party translation app. But it still adds another layer of monitoring issues (which pads light up on the Launchpad for feedback are no longer correct when you do this). If you make the Playlist Items custom note assignable, that solves the issue for multiple users with the same gear (simply and laptop and a Launchpad in some cases), and easier to use once set up.

[rdorsche]

Well now HERE'S something interesting.
The Launchpad and Akai APC Mini send different MIDI data.
The Launchpad works with no issues for Scene 0 like we chatted about, but
The APC Mini does play Scene 0... for a split second.
I'm certain is has to do with the note off value on the button release.

Note Off value on Launchpad: 0
vs
Note Off value on the APC Mini: 127

See screenshots from the MIDI Monitor app:

Screen Shot 2015-04-07 at 11.34.59 PM.png (80.34 KiB) Viewed 11947 times

Screen Shot 2015-04-07 at 11.36.27 PM.png (83.91 KiB) Viewed 11947 times

[rdorsche]

So the good news is, found out that pesky Scene 0 issue.
Simple fix for you; but I'll have to use an additional controller for video triggering for now, or I'm setting up my project files for live performances that happen starting next month.

I prefer the APC Mini for functionality and extra controls over the Launchpad; I'll just leave Scene 0 empty for now and skip the button that sends C-2, and mission accomplished!

[Magic]

Ok, thanks for the MIDI screenshots. It's an interesting situation, because the playlist shouldn't respond to note-off messages. I'll have to do some digging to understand what's going on. I might need to get an APC Mini to test with.

[Magic]

Also, I was just reading some old posts, and this one might be helpful: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=279&start=20#p1283

[rdorsche]

Thanks for that Launchpad95 link. Seems like a lot to memorize. But I'll check it out.

My two cents worth of advice is that the APC Mini is superior to the launchpad, as it has 9 slider controls, and well built.
(that and it came with a free $149 VST plugin, Hybrid3, which is decent)

But the Launchpad is more universally used.