Transparency effect question

Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:31 pm

Hi, first time poster, hope this is the right section for this question:

In the project I'm working on, I want to use the transparency effect with a PNG mask. What I would like is for it to be 0% transparent for ~ 5 seconds, then to slowly fade to 100% transparent over the course of ~15 seconds, and then to stay at 100% transparent for ~15 seconds before fading back to 0%. Then I would like to repeat this indefinitely.

Can anyone help me with the best way to set this up?

Thanks in advance!
dj0le
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:45 pm

There are probably a few different ways to do that, but I think the easiest would be to use the Playlist, because the timing/fading functionality is already there.

If you want to quickly see how the Playlist works, you can open the MoreScenes.magic sample project (Help > Open Sample Project). Then follow along with these two sections of the User's Guide:
- https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads/Magic_UsersGuide.html#Auto-advance, which describes how to set up the timing.
- https://magicmusicvisuals.com/downloads/Magic_UsersGuide.html#Transitions, which describes how to set up the fade transitions.

Essentially you would want to set up every playlist entry for the durations you mentioned, and then adjust the transitions accordingly.

Try that out, and feel free to let me know if you have any questions.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:46 pm

Hi, I would love to do something similar without using playlists please. :)
Specifically, I have 10 scenes. I would love to have another scene ("SceneMaster") that would allow me to have one scene fade into another (say over 10 seconds) and then, after some (random) time, fade into another randomly chosen one (say, over, like 5 seconds). I would love it if I could make the scene-chosen, scene on-time, and scene-fade-time all be random (within ranges). Does that make sense? I know it is sort of what the playlist with autoadvance and randomize does. But, I would like to try it "in scene". I was thinking about maybe using multimix (with an expression/random stuff?)... but, I cannot figure out a good way to do it. Any ideas? :) Thanks!
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:38 pm

Well, my first question is, for what reason would you like to try it within a scene? I think the Playlist would be a lot easier. It has most of the functionality you're asking for.

But if you are committed to trying it within a scene, my next question is, have you thought about using MIDI to control the fades/timing? If you want to simultaneously automate things, but also to keep them random, it can be a good idea to put a human in the middle :). If you had a hardware MIDI controller with faders, it would be pretty simple to set up and control. And it would just be up to the operator to improvise the random aspects.

Or, another option (also using MIDI) would be to use a program like this: http://imimot.com/vezer/ or this: http://www.duration.cc/. They are specifically designed to be timeline controllers. I'm not sure if they will let you do random durations, but they would certainly allow you to create very nice envelopes to control fades and such.

If you didn't want to use any other programs, you could use an Increase modifier feeding into an Expression modifier to create a mathematically defined envelope, but it would be pretty complicated, and you wouldn't be able to randomize it (at least not in a way that I can think of right now).
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:11 pm

Thanks Eric. The problem I have with the playlist option is that it does not allow for random scene/fade durations -- and, that is pretty critical to what I want to create. Having a standard scene duration (e.g. 30 seconds or whatever) starts to become obvious/boring over time. And, having all the fade durations equal also sort of defeats my goals. (I am playing around with the interesting things that happen when you have two scenes overlayed -- and, again, I don't want the overlays to become too "standard"). If it were possible to specify a range of durations within each playlist element and for the fade durations, I would be golden! Is that functionality possible?
Note: I have done this via MIDI before, but it is a bit of a pain.... but, maybe I can try again.... and/or I can give those other programs a try.
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:41 pm

I guess it's possible, but the Playlist isn't meant to be used for layering scenes as an effect. It's really just for transitioning from one scene to another. I probably wouldn't want to overcomplicate it by adding a lot of extra features that would be redundant to using a MIDI controller, but I will certainly think about it a bit more.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:35 pm

Thanks! Actually, another option that I have been playing with (and am finding pretty nifty) is the "input selector" module. I have scenes feeding into that bad boy, and then a long/slow sine-wave to move between them. Two things would make it nicer: (1) allowing a random selection at certain time intervals (e.g. every 10-30 seconds choose a new random value.... is there some sneaky way to make that happen?). (2) (bigger problem): the "transition" (from one input to the next) happens instantly. I wonder if it might be possible to allow the input selector to have a "transition-time". Or if there is some sneaky way for me to achieve this. ((I did try having two of these running in parallel and then "blending" the two outputs -- hoping that the transition/flash would be less noticeable in the blended output --- but, no luck... the suddent scene-change is always very noticeable)). Thoughts?
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:39 pm

You bring up two things that have been on my to-do list, and I'm hoping to implement soon :):

1. Adding a Fade parameter to the InputSelector. The parameter value will determine the fade duration.

2. Extending the maximum duration of the Hold modifier. Currently the maximum is 1 second, but there doesn't really need to be a maximum (and I can't even remember why I set one). You can use Hold after Random to keep the random value constant for a while.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:14 pm

Eric wrote:... I'm hoping to implement soon .. Adding a Fade parameter to the InputSelector.

Cool :D, but please may we have some additional features:

a) Transition style options as well as duration - the same as offered in the Playlist.

b) Non-Additive Dissolve as an extra transition style option for the Playlist and the InputSelector, better preserving the elements of the two inputs during the transition. The inputs are scaled exactly as the Additive Dissolve, ie both 100% at the mid-way point, but the pixels are compared and those with the greater luminance form the output.

Example, showing the mid-point of the transition with both inputs at 100%:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6vmZIE01vo

The illustrations here better show the effect I would like to have, although this is a more advanced dissolve than simple luminance-based non-additive dissolve: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/rainbow/projects/compositing/EG06-Cross-Dissolve-Without-Cross-Fade.pdf.
Terry Payman
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:18 pm

Yaay! that would be great (fade and hold). And, adding transition-style as well as TFD (Terry's Fancy Dissolve) would be fabulous as well. Yaay! :D
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:17 am

Actually, thinking about this a bit more, I probably won't want to modify InputSelector because it's very simple, efficient, and fast. Adding any kind of transition capability would slow it down considerably and might negatively affect people's existing projects, even if no transitions were used.

The best solution would be a new module, more similar to MultiMix. The difference would be the ability to transition between arbitrary non-adjacent inputs (as in the Playlist), but without the ability to transition backwards (which MultiMix does have).

I've had it on my list to add more transitions to the Playlist. What I'm hoping to do is define some kind of standardized transition format whereby third-party shaders could be used, therefore allowing new transitions to be added without modifying the application. Something like this: http://transitions.glsl.io/. Perhaps those transitions could also be used in the new module.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:44 pm

While talking about transitions, there is one I would love: VideoFile Module, looping. When the loop is to start again I very much would appreciate a fade transition from the end of the file into the beginning. So no hard jumps in the video will occur.

Reinhard
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Sure, that's a good idea and I think it would be easy for me to add.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:55 pm

Great to hear. Thanks.
Reinhard
Reigel
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:17 pm

a really good idea !
damstraversaz
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:38 pm

That sounds great! I love those transitions at the link you included. It looks cool. One concern/thought/question would be: how would the temporal element be handled? I guess the idea would be to have a bunch of scene (or other) inputs, and the new unit would select one to "transition from" and another to "transition to", and then a transition effect... and a delay (hold?) and a duration-of-transition.... or something? hmmm, sounds like a complicated module. Or, am I over-thinking this? Anyway, I am sure that if anyone can do it, Erik can! Yaaay! :) [I love Magic!]
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:03 pm

I'm envisioning that it would work in the same way as the Playlist: when you select a new input, it just transitions there. It wouldn't have a "From" parameter, only a "To", and the "To" would be the Input # (as in the InputSelector). The other parameters would be the transition style and duration.

It could theoretically work with both "From" and "To" parameters, but I think you're right that it would be too complicated.
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:15 am

Just wondering if anything ever became of this concept/thread? Thanks! -james

Eric wrote:I'm envisioning that it would work in the same way as the Playlist: when you select a new input, it just transitions there. It wouldn't have a "From" parameter, only a "To", and the "To" would be the Input # (as in the InputSelector). The other parameters would be the transition style and duration.

It could theoretically work with both "From" and "To" parameters, but I think you're right that it would be too complicated.
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:19 pm

On my to-do list :)
Eric
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:23 am

Eric wrote:On my to-do list :)


Any updates on this thread/concept Eric? I have been waiting quite some years.... :)
I know you have lots of other things on your plate, but this has been a dream of mine for many years (sad but true!).
Any idea of this will ever come?
Thanks, and I hope you-and-yours are well in these strange times.
jameseye
 
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Re: Transparency effect question

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:49 pm

Not really, because this type of mixing can be solved by using multiple Transparency or Color modules. A dedicated module would just be a shortcut, and I tend to de-prioritize things that have a reasonable workaround.
Eric
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